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Thread: Sloppy steering
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rotormunky
Redlining
Orlando, Florida
Posts: 424
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posted April 16, 2003 02:24 PM |
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quote:
I'd like to see pictures of that too! Sounds worthwhile.
Are the B2000 front brakes any better than REPU? Vented rotors? Bigger calipers? Bigger pads? Do they use the same odd wedge style calipers like REPU?
Same wheel bolt pattern?
Thanks!!!!!!!
Well on my list of things to do after I actually get my baby running is brakes and LSD. I might convert to five lug front and rear to make it easier I really won't know until I get into it a little more. Famous last words I know: but putting together a disc brake kit doesn't look impossible. Find the right caliper and rotor and fab the brackets.
I'm going to push very hard for four-wheel disc brakes as I can actually see myself loading the REPU to payload capacity at times. That's why I'd like a LSD too. That and I hate getting stuck on wet grass :p
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-Martin
Orlando, Florida
http://www.themonkeyhouse.org/REPU
'77 REPU (Some assembly required :)
'91 Cabrio (Battered and bruised, but she's still my baby.)
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brad
Rotorhead
Posts: 1672
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posted April 16, 2003 03:46 PM |
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Well on my list of things to do after I actually get my baby running is brakes and LSD.
I'm going to push very hard for four-wheel disc brakes as I can actually see myself loading the REPU to payload capacity at times. That's why I'd like a LSD too. That and I hate getting stuck on wet grass :p
Yep. I might tow my Rx7 racecar with REPU if it can brake and torque up 4400ft mountain I have to traverse to get to track....
LSD great idea.... Did a B2000 or B2200 come with a LSD? Any chance our REPU gears would fit in one? I really want to keep the 4.62 gears I got in the REPU.
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-brad-
74 REPU Lawn Green
81 Rx-7 racecar. 12a J-
Bridge
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Jeff20B
Moderator
Posts: 661
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posted April 16, 2003 10:16 PM |
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The REPU rear is a lot like a Ford 9". I think Mazda sort of copied it since the Courier and B1600 were pretty much the same truck. There should be lots of LSD units available for the 9". Maybe some adventurous sole could take on such a challenge?
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'74 REPU
'76 Cosmo
'77 MG Midget 13B
'81 RX-7
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Jeff20B
Moderator
Posts: 661
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posted May 22, 2003 12:06 PM |
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I've actually gotten somewhat used to the slop. I'm going to try a smaller aftermarket steering wheel really soon which should reduce the perceptible amount of slop that I'm feeling. It'll take more effort to crank the wheels, but a friend's REPU with wide tires is like this, and I've driven it before. His steering is decently tight. I guess if I don't like it, I can always switch back to the stocker.
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'74 REPU
'76 Cosmo
'77 MG Midget 13B
'81 RX-7
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Klaus43
Rotorhead
Posts: 1259
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posted May 23, 2003 08:47 AM |
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First-gen rx-7 steering wheel...
...is a 'good' size. Might even save you a few bucks as vs. aftermarket! Find the best one in your regional j-yards...
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Jeff20B
Moderator
Posts: 661
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posted May 23, 2003 02:05 PM |
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I've got a 1st gen wheel too!
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'74 REPU
'76 Cosmo
'77 MG Midget 13B
'81 RX-7
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Mikkaz
Newbie
Posts: 6
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posted May 24, 2003 03:35 AM |
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I know it would be alot of playing around but has anybody ever converted to a rack and pinion in replacement of the original box and arm arrangement.
or even better a power steer arrangemnet.
I dont have the dredded slop yet but it will happen ,,so would like to convert it before it happens
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If it aint broke,,,you aint driving it hard enough
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Klaus43
Rotorhead
Posts: 1259
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posted May 25, 2003 12:50 PM |
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The rack would be nice...
...but why power steering? For me, anyhow, it's just not nessecary... not like it's a full-size truck... Besides, I like to feel what's really going on... and avoid adding extra pumps, belts, & hoses.
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Jeff20B
Moderator
Posts: 661
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posted May 26, 2003 11:35 PM |
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I'll be switching to an '84-'85 wheel or an aftermarket one soon. :)
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'74 REPU
'76 Cosmo
'77 MG Midget 13B
'81 RX-7
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Jeff20B
Moderator
Posts: 661
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posted June 05, 2007 10:45 PM |
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I attempted to tighten the steering today. I removed the top cover and slid out the adjusting screw. It had a squarish rectangle piece of hardened steel sitting at the base, which rides in the slot in the steering box. The slot is at the top of the pitman arm with gears that mess against the worm gear/ball nut part.
Sorry, I don't know the correct terminology.
The base of the screw was worn to about 9.3mm. I measured the ID of the hardened steel piece and it was around 10.3 I think. I measured a non worn section of the shaft and it was around 9.8mm or so, like most Mazda 10mm x 1.25 bolts (like bellhousing to engine bolts).
I studied the movement of the guts in the box with the steering wheel lock to lock, and centered. It seems some of the slop in the wheel was coming from the pitman arm as it rocks back and forth without the adjuster screw in place.
A lightbulb turned on over my head.
What if I could either add more steel to the base of the screw, to not only fill in what was worn, but possibly thicken it up to th emax? Or maybe find another similar bolt in my collection in grade 8 or higher and fanagle something together? I found a promising grade 10 bolt with a nice 9.98mm shank, but the head was a bit different from the adjuster screw. Also the threads didn't extend quite as long as I wanted.
I chose to weld some material to the base of the adjuster screw. It went as well as could be expected I suppose. When it was all lumpy I ground it to more or less round and threw it in the drill press aand stun it at slow speed. With Dremel in hand and a cutting disc, I cut down all the high spots as best as I could.
I had to repeat the process a few more times to fill in any gaps etc.
The final product yielded between 10.3 and 10.55mm thickness at the base, a whole millimeter of extra material! What's even more important is the hardened steel thing fits nicely and the screw itself fits snug in the slot at the top of the pitmant arm gear thing. It actually alternates between tight and stock feeling, depending upon the clock angle of the screw, if that explanation makes any sense (it's because I don't have a friggin lathe! lol).
I schmutzed some Right Stuff on the top cover of the steering box and screwed the adjustment screw counterclockwise up into it until the cover was close enough to get the four bolts into the threaded holes in the base.
I torqued them all down and proceded to put the adjuster screw back at its stock height. Not only was it slightly more difficult than before, due to the thicker base, but the slop of several inches imediately diminished to like an inch and a half. Drastic improvement!
There is still some slop in the worm gear itself, which will aways be there, but at least now the pitman arm side of things has been improved.
I didn't let this fix go to my head as I remembered that this is only the "sector shaft end play adjustment" or some such, and "any improvement in steering feel will only last a very short period of time." I left the screw a ways from absolute tightness so I can drive it for a while to get a feel for it and try to guage how soon it slops up again, if at all. I still want the steering wheel to self-center, you know. :)
I have a feeling since the base is now thicker than it was when new, it may stay like it is (relatively imrpved) for a while at least. I did attempt to adjust the screw once before, about six years ago. The fix only lasted a few miles. May this latest attempt be the final solution.
Feel free to add your thoughts.
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'74 REPU
'76 Cosmo
'77 MG Midget 13B
'81 RX-7
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Jeff20B
Moderator
Posts: 661
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posted September 17, 2007 11:24 AM |
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No thoughts to add?
I got to drive the truck for the first time since '03 or some such with a fresh rebuild and a good 5 speed. The steering totally sucks compared to a 1st gen RX-7. The large stock steering wheel doesn't help things either. I might want to swap in a 1st gen steering wheel because this big stock one is just too big. It's only good in parking lot maneuvers, and even then its size is not entirely necessary.
One good thing came out of the additional metal added to the bolt thing; I can now drive the truck with wide tires and it doesn't want to plow me into a guard rail anymore. :)
I still have to pay attention and countersteer sometimes just to keep it straight on slightly titled roads, but it is at least a minor improvement over how it was before. Also the self-centering action is working just fine.
It honestly feels like I could get away with a few more degrees of tightening on the sector shaft bolt thing and the self-centering action should still function. I'll just double-check the oil level and adjust it a little in the coming days when it isn't raining.
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Brad
Rotorhead
Posts: 1672
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posted September 17, 2007 04:52 PM |
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well, since most REPU steering boxes are well worn
And mine is also all out of adjustment, I did some more research on it.
Called Lee Manufacturing in SoCal, they said they can rebuild the box and they should be able to get worm gear and sector shaft if needed too for additional cost. They have a great parts source they said. He even knew the Courier and B1600 use the same box. They just need to take it apart and see what's in there.
So Jeff, if your steering box is out this might be the way to go. He said just ship it to them and they'll rebuild it and call you to ask how to pay. ;) They'd even see if another ratio is available once it's apart!!!
http://www.leepowersteering.com/
Standard rebuild seals included, w/o any hard parts is $220 and they magnaflux everything. Equivalent to blueprinting.
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-brad-
74 REPU Lawn Green
81 Rx-7 racecar. 12a J-
Bridge
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Jeff20B
Moderator
Posts: 661
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posted September 17, 2007 11:09 PM |
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That sounds like a good deal.
I went ahead and tightened up the sector shaft bolt and took it for a five mile drive today.
I held the screwdriver in one hand and played with the steering wheel with the other. I got it narrowed down to nearly as tight as the white REPU, which has always had tight steering (when you touch the wheel, the tires move) but not much self-centering action. It also has stiff tie rod ends which the red one doesn't.
In the parking lot right after the procedure, it didn't want to self center as easily as before - I was expecting that. When I got out on the road the improvement was immediately noticeable. Wow what a change! I can actually drive this now and not be afraid of going over 60 (actually 50 as indicated on the 10+over MPH speedo due to small tires).
I can't tell whether it loosened up at all during the drive. I checked the oil level and it looked good, so the sector shaft has enough lube.
I also developed carb trouble after I banged on the tank to free up the guage sender float thing. It must have jarred something loose which got through the new filter and made its way into the carb. It only wants to run on one rotor at low RPM and gets smooth when you get on it on primaries (not opening secondaries, which I have yet to open on this fresh rebuild). I suspect only the idle circuit is clogged. Similar problems used to plauge the white REPU until I added a second filter up in the engine bay. That was in '04 and hasn't reoccured since. I'll add a filter in the engine bay of the red one and tear the carb down to clean it out.
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Brad
Rotorhead
Posts: 1672
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posted September 18, 2007 08:13 AM |
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Caster also affects self centering of steering wheel. More caster = more centering.
The two dollar fram G12 filters get the big particles but not smaller ones. Try the big chrome Fram bolt on filter right before the carb - i think it filters down to 10 microns. Summitracing.com sells it.
Glad the steering is better.
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Jeff20B
Moderator
Posts: 661
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posted September 19, 2007 12:40 PM |
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It turns out there was a big vacuum leak. I discovered it after the carb swap. Now she purrs. Even the funny vibration at idle is gone.
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Jeff20B
Moderator
Posts: 661
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posted September 21, 2007 10:54 AM |
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The steering has held up for five miles so far. :)
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Jeff20B
Moderator
Posts: 661
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posted October 01, 2007 09:54 AM |
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I've put at least 50 miles on it since tightening the steering and it loosened up a little then settled. I'll leave it like this for a while and see how it goes.
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Jeff20B
Moderator
Posts: 661
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posted December 01, 2007 10:16 AM |
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It has about 350 miles now (according to the odo, which reads a little fast) and the steering seems to be holding up. It's still really vague with a tendency to pull to once side or the other depending on road conditions or whether I've just made a turn or not. Something aint' quite right up front, but it's stable up to 50 or 60 MPH and I'm ok with that... for now.
I'll see how it is after the engine's more broken-in.
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Brad
Rotorhead
Posts: 1672
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posted December 01, 2007 12:52 PM |
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quote:
It has about 350 miles now (according to the odo, which reads a little fast) and the steering seems to be holding up. It's still really vague with a tendency to pull to once side or the other depending on road conditions or whether I've just made a turn or not. Something aint' quite right up front, but it's stable up to 50 or 60 MPH and I'm ok with that... for now.
I'll see how it is after the engine's more broken-in.
Thanks for the update Jeff!
if it pulls, then front alignment needs some work.
vagueness is the box itself, and any worn related components like tie rods or the center link balljoint.
____________
-brad-
74 REPU Lawn Green
81 Rx-7 racecar. 12a J-
Bridge
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Jeff20B
Moderator
Posts: 661
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posted January 05, 2008 01:12 PM |
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Just passed 500 and the steering seems to be getting sloppy again. Or maybe it's because I recently drove a few vehicles with relatively tight steering.
The way I figure, I have one more adjustment left on the steering box before it runs out completely. It lasted 500 miles so far (actually a little less since my speedo reads about 10% high) so I guess that's ok for a quick fix
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