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Thread: B2600i engine swap, but with what?
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vwmike
Newbie
Posts: 6
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posted May 01, 2003 09:09 AM |
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B2600i engine swap, but with what?
Hey guys...I know this is a rotary forum, but it's really hard to find a forum not centered around aluminum wings and blue headlights. I have a 93 b2600i with 195k miles on it. The previous owner did some "porting" to the head and got to close to one of the coolant passages in one of the exhaust ports, so it cracked. I could have it welded, but since i have it apart I would like to do a timing chain as well. After all is said and done I have a feeling I'm going to be into it $300+. So, I'm thinking of just sticking another engine in there. Finding one of these engines at a reasonable price seems to be next to impossible as well. I don't want a rotary either....I still love the wankel design, but no one can argue that it's as reliable as a conventional engine design. So, my thinking was maybe an MPV V6. Those seem to be plentiful. Has anyone ever done this? Anyone know if this injection is batch fired? Will the V6 bolt to the 2600 bell housing, and if so, what clutch would I be using? Would it clear the hood as well? Thanks! Mike
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Klaus43
Rotorhead
Posts: 1259
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posted May 01, 2003 09:47 AM |
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You know you want a REPU!
The wankel engine design is more reliable. Fewer moving parts, and no reciprocal motion... Just has to be done right from the get-go, and cared for well--just like anything mechanical. Sure, there are piston engines that will survive far more abuse...if that's what you need, get an old dodge 225 slant six! I'm with you on the wing/blue lights stuff, though. Good luck!
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Draggin_2600i
Redlining
Posts: 235
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posted May 01, 2003 08:29 PM |
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Well, I can't cay I have done the swap but I used to own a 90 B2600i, that would explain my screen name.. Anyways.. if you wanna get a better idea of the swap and stuff on the MPV you may try finding the CHILTON bool for Mazda trucks 87-92 it has all the stuff in there for the B2600i, and the MPVs.. Your engine the G6, also came in the mpv, so the V6 engine may just have different mounts, but you will probably need all the wiring and stuff too.. It would be nice to go with a rotary, but if you are trying not to spend spend too much I would suggest against it.. till you have more $$ to spend..
the MPV also has the G6 engine, maybe you could find a head at the junkyard and see if it will fit the truck..
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admin
Administrator
Posts: 446
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posted May 02, 2003 09:12 AM |
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Engine Source
I got my JSpec Turbo2 engine from A1 Engines.
http://www.a1engines.com/#
They have pissed-on engines too :) And I think they can come with the ECU and wiring harness, if you request it.
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Klaus43
Rotorhead
Posts: 1259
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posted May 02, 2003 11:19 AM |
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Blake set a good example
with his 'sevenandahalf' as to what may be achieved on a strict budget...there's still the occaisional used deal out there. As far as the myth of rotary unreliability, how much of that is due to: 1.) The relative ease with which they are over-revved 2.) The number of half-assed rebuilds (and bad break-in's) amongst the re-mans out there 3.) The amount of abuse dished out to rotary engines in general, (due to their willingness to perform?) 4.) Folks not stopping to consider longevity/reliability in direct relation to number of rotations over time...(the faster it turns, the faster it wears)...
It's all relative, piston or wankel... performance vs. reliability vs. dollars vs. care, over time.
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vwmike
Newbie
Posts: 6
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posted May 02, 2003 12:51 PM |
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Does anyone know of any other japenese engine suppliers? Everyone I've talked to said they were out.
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rotormunky
Redlining
Orlando, Florida
Posts: 424
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posted May 02, 2003 03:40 PM |
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I'm not FANATICAL about rotaries, I LOVE them, but I know what they're good for and what they're not.
Some observations:
1) When someone says they're unreliable they're either thinking of the old 12a from the early 70s or the 13b-rew from the FD. THe former just had poor quality apex seals and wore out quickly (this would be the same time ppl thought it was amazing when american cars managed 100K).
THe latter lost seals due to overheating, much like a head gasket. This was due to the funky twin-turbo setup and poor radiators they put in them.
2) THe cost of rebuilding the TOP end of a piston-engine often exceeds the cost of replacing or rebuilding an ENTIRE rotary engine. Case in point, this 2.6L out of your truck. Or just about ANY american engine. I've had to do heaedgaskets on an LT1 and a Ford 3.8 in the last 12 months alone. THe ford wound up filling with water and spinning a crankbearing, requiring a full engine rebuild, which did in fact cost more and take a lot more time then doing a rotary.
The point here is that rotaries rarely fail in non-rebuidable ways and its cheaper, faster and a LOT easier to rebuild them. Something as simple as a headgasket takes as long as a full rotary rebuild, costs as much and god help you if a blown headgasket trashes anything on the bottom end.
3) I've known mechanics who wouldn't do spark plugs on a rotary because they're under some strange impressions about the engine. "I don't work on rotaries." If you don't let superstition get in your way and actually get first hand experience with a rotary you'll realise its a great engine to work on.
4) Most ppl hold opinions that they've heard other ppl express, usually ppl who haven't had anything to do with a rotary. That's silly practise for anything.
5) If you drive a rotary like you drive some miser 4-banger then you'll get longer life out of it. I guarantee it. How long did those 4-bangers and V-6s last in the camaros and mustangs?
6) Despite their weakpoints (and there are weakpoints) I drive rotaries because I'm not smart enough, rich enough or have enough time or patience to drive a piston engine.
For daily tansportation, jus check your fluids, don't overheat and you'll get 200-300k I promise.
For performance, I'm just not smart enough to deal with cam choices, lift, duration, etc.
These are just a few personal observations.
____________
-Martin
Orlando, Florida
http://www.themonkeyhouse.org/REPU
'77 REPU (Some assembly required :)
'91 Cabrio (Battered and bruised, but she's still my baby.)
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vwmike
Newbie
Posts: 6
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posted May 03, 2003 09:02 AM |
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I'm not arguing about the reliability of rotaries... I look at it like this. For me, a novice with rotaries, to own one and expect to be able to keep it going with absolutely no problems, is a bad idea. I like them, but I can't see anything short of a turbo rotary having enough torque to propel that 3000lb truck up hills, let alone with anything in it. The 2.6 is such a dumb detuned engine it makes most of it's power right off idle. Long stroke, heavy flywheel, balance shafts....not a recipe for high rpm. Great for a truck. I could put a rotary in there and I almost did. I'd kinda like to keep it simple right now. I was thinking of the kia sportage motor as well, but the distributor issue is my main concern. This is not my hot rod either. I have a Callaway turbo VW GTI, a 75 Rabbit, and a 79 Scirocco which I'm working on making AWD. The truck is just to haul stuff and I should just keep it that way. Reliable and simple.
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Klaus43
Rotorhead
Posts: 1259
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posted May 03, 2003 09:31 AM |
 Edited By: klaus42 on 3 May 2003 09:32 |
Ever ride in a REPU?
It might just change your mind! My 'POS' driver REPU will haul ass up hills... and all I'm running is a j-spec 4-port 13B, with a RB header, and the stock intake & carb.... A REPU could be the functional, practical truck you need---but you're probably right to stick with something else, if you can't spend the time working on another project, let alone restoring a rarity.
Martin-- excellent points! But I don't believe you aren't 'smart enough' to understand piston tech. ...you'd just have to want to...kinda like those "I don't change plugs in a rotary" guys...
Strangely enough, some of those early carbon-apex-seal 12A's actually did last...and racers still run those seals... I like the idea of the housings staying intact when the motor spits out the seal!
Sometimes, simpler is better.
Engine suppliers: Don't know, but I'd try a meta-search engine like dogpile.com ...
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Draggin_2600i
Redlining
Posts: 235
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posted May 03, 2003 10:11 PM |
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The repu came with a 4.11 rear end, and I think the B2600i has about the same, so the truck should move, the engine just might be revved more than the piston engine.. The B2600i makes about 120HP.. any 13b 1985 and up will make more than that.. without turbo.. they make from 130 to 150.. Just a thought.. any swap will cost you some $$$ I guess it will all depends on what becomes availiable in your area..
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vwmike
Newbie
Posts: 6
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posted May 03, 2003 11:57 PM |
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It's not the horsepower part that I was referring to, it's the torque issue. It just doesn't seem to me that a rotary would make a goos truck engine. If I could find a turbo rotary at a good price I would strongly consider it.... but I'd really like to find a lower mile stock engine to put in there. Right now I'm looking for a whole MPV van that's wrecked or something in the Seattle area. From what I can tell, the 2.6 was used in the mpv through 94. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.
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Klaus43
Rotorhead
Posts: 1259
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posted May 05, 2003 10:27 AM |
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Just in case you do find a rotary...
The stock REPU flywheel was the heaviest unit ever offered on a rotary powered vehicle at 33 lbs. ...combining this with REPU-like low rear-end ratios, and perhaps a header that collects earlier (closer to the exhaust ports) than usual, could do good things to increase your low-end pull...
Similarly, fuel, intake, timing, and even particular choice of spark plug can noticeably effect at what RPM's power kicks in. It is hard to imagine a rotary, though, that doesn't have it's real powerband start below 3 or 4 grand...it is, afterall, all about flow! Don't know that I'd go turbo--yes, the power is there, but so are other issues, and I'm not (yet) a turbo guy--but if I had the bucks, the Camden supercharger sure looks nice!
Now I gotta wonder if jstutzenegger ever found a buyer for his SC13B ...? That might've been/might be your rotary motor of choice!
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vwmike
Newbie
Posts: 6
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posted May 10, 2003 11:45 AM |
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Ok, next question. - I came across a starion super cheap. Runs good supposedly.... I might rebuild the engine. If you're not familiar with this one, it's a mitsu 2.6L turbo engine. The same basic engine that came in the early 2600's, but was carbureted. The Engine mounts on the early 2600,...are those the same as the later ones (doubt it) or anything else? I could always make mounts, but it would be nice if it bolted it (that's kinda the point). Would anyone possibly be familiar with the track width of a mitsu truck? I'm thinking of throwing the montero rear end in there. Thanks for any help I could get on this one...somehow I think I'm going to be doing a lot of the Q & A stuff myself though.
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Draggin_2600i
Redlining
Posts: 235
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posted May 11, 2003 06:40 PM |
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The engine mounts should be about the same.. since it is a variant of engine that came in the earlier carbed B2600s, But the exhaust is on the opposite side so you would have to swap you fuel lines location and possibly the tank.. Just remember that the starion engines are prone to having Head problems.. so it may cost more than you bargained for..
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admin
Administrator
Posts: 446
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posted May 11, 2003 09:48 PM |
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quote:
Just remember that the starion engines are prone to having Head problems.. so it may cost more than you bargained for..
Head problems? what's that?
Sell the piston and put the cash into a good rotary :)
With proper tuning, rotaries can be made to handle any job, reliabily. And with My FD's 125,000 miles, my old FC's had 150,000, my dad's FC 185,000, I'll argue to the death about the rotary's reliability.
Back onto the general topic of this thread, tape measure and climbing under the truck and a few trips to the junk yard are in order. I don't think anyone here would be able to pull exact fitment numbers out for the application you're looking at doing.
(as the admin, i'm obgligated to put rotary content on my ROTARY ENGINE PickUp Board) :)
____________
I'm The Admin, thats why!
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vwmike
Newbie
Posts: 6
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posted May 12, 2003 08:08 PM |
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I found an engine!!
Of course, the day after I buy this conquest, I found a really low mile Mazda B2600i motor at a reasonable price. So, if anyone wants the conquest it's up for sale.
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Draggin_2600i
Redlining
Posts: 235
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posted May 13, 2003 09:11 AM |
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Don't you hate when that happens.. Right after you spend your $$ you find a better deal or exactly what you were lookin for..
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asprila
Newbie
Posts: 1
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posted August 04, 2003 09:48 PM |
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quote:
Is the engine you talked about still up for sale. My engine just blew up, so I am looking for new one. Thanks
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