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Thread: 74 repu + 86 FI 13b= CRUISIN!
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russtburb
Newbie
Posts: 7
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posted April 17, 2009 06:10 PM |
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74 repu + 86 FI 13b= CRUISIN!
Hi There! My Name is Dennis and I am new! This is my first post. I've been browsing off and on for about 3 years. I have a '74 Repu that I am just starting to re-power. I have a 1986 Mazda RX-7 donor car (its wrecked but runs!) It has the fuel injected 13b and a 5 speed Transmission. I am just wanting to put it in and make it run so I can finally drive this truck! I am not planning on Racing it...yet. I was noticing that the motor mounts appear to be different and I think I read here somewhere that you have to make a cross member for the 5 speed? I have also read here that others have done this swap and I am hoping for some good advise. I am a Diesel Mechanic with official training in the automotive industry. If I can offer any assistance in return I will be more then happy to do so. Thanks for reading! And thanks for the great site!
Dennis
ps: any suggestions on books a guy can read to educate himself in the propper "Mazda Dialog?"
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74 Repu in re-power mode
72 3/4 Ton Suburban
84 chev K5 pu
89 Honda Civic
96 Geo Metro
2008 26QS Aerolite
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paulsrepu
Hauling
Posts: 107
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posted April 17, 2009 09:19 PM |
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Hello Dennis,
I have an 87 Turbo engine in my truck. The best way to mount it is to use the original oil pan and front mount from the original engine. It will bolt right in then. As long as you use a 5 speed transmission from 1976-1980 then there is virtually no modifications. Anything later has the shifter farther back.
Good luck,
Paul
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russtburb
Newbie
Posts: 7
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posted April 17, 2009 10:33 PM |
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so the front mount bolts to the oil pan? I will probably learn this tomorrow when I pull the engine(s)? out tomorrow. but it looks to me like the front mount bolts to the front engine cover. I guess my dream of using the 86 5spd won't work.
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74 Repu in re-power mode
72 3/4 Ton Suburban
84 chev K5 pu
89 Honda Civic
96 Geo Metro
2008 26QS Aerolite
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sparky
Redlining
Posts: 299
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posted April 18, 2009 12:42 AM |
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Check out the Mazdatrix website. They have some cool info and videos. Need to be cautious with thrust bearing when installing front cover from old REPU engine.
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Klaus45
Redlining
On two wheels
Posts: 218
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posted April 18, 2009 08:51 AM |
 Edited By: Klaus45 on 18 Apr 2009 08:59 |
Welcome, Dennis!
...like Paul and Sparky indicated, you can swap the front cover... but you'll need an earlier transmission, if you want to avoid cutting into the cab, and having clearance issues with the stock seat.
quote:
ps: any suggestions on books a guy can read to educate himself in the propper "Mazda Dialog?"
Mazda Factory Service, Shop, and Parts Manuals; an earlier version of Racing Beat's Technical Manual/Catalogue (for anything REPU/oldschool-specific); older threads right here on this forum, (not to mention elsewhere on the web/Mazda Rotary Webring); article in May 1999 issue of Auto Restorer Magazine; article in Feb. 2002 issue of Sport Aviation magazine... ;)
Whereabouts are you located?
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gborch
1st Gear
Posts: 39
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posted April 18, 2009 01:21 PM |
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Do it .. get another one on the road. . . .
So basically to get your set up in you need to do a couple of things and have a couple of options . . . .
Definitely change front engine cover (about $200) to get motor mount bracket to bolt on and to mate up with mounts on chassis. You will obviously need to get motor mounts as well. (get the stiff ones, Racing beat has them the cheapest)
The tranny, If you plan to keep that set up you will run into a couple of issues. . . .
1- the shifter is about 5 inches back and will NOT fit into cab with seat.
2- the trans mount does not work without modifications.
The Shifter: You have a couple of options . . .
You can take the shifter bracket off the tail piece and cut it down, moving mounting holes up and gain approx 2" so then shifter is back 3" instead of five. Which is still excessive. Or You can get the top shifter bracket from a 1st gen tranny cut it down, moving mounting holes up and it will line up perfectly centered as stock shifter location. Sparky is an EXPERT in this field. Sorry Sparky had to say it. The 1st gen trans is about 2" back and if you remove and cut bracket it lines up perfet. If you do not cut 1st gen shifter bracket it still works but a little tight with seat. Unless you get a short shifter.
The Trans Mount: These trans mount change drastically from series 3,4 and 5. Series 4, 1986 trans mount is alot easier than series 5 trans mount. I find the best modification for the series 4, 1986 transmission is to leave mounting cross member in same location (some people move it forward). Use the 1st gen transmission mount (about $40, it bolts right up and keeps same pitch)Weld a plate to the transmission cross member and drill holes into it for the trans mount to match up to.( if you email me I can probably send you pics of a series 4 and series 5 transmission mount modification)
All the transmissions for the Rotaries from early 70"s to now I believe are exact same length (approx 32 1/4". Depending on spline count on the trans you might be able to use same drive shaft. I am not sure what the spline count is on the non turbo 1986 trans. I know the spline count is approx 4 more for the turbo trans.
With the help of Sparky (Einstein) with my modifications with the 1st gen trans shifter mount onto a T2 transmissions I have install 2 T2 transissions into my trucks and the shifter lines up perfectly center like stock.
It might sound like alot of work but it is definitely worth it. It is definitely doable for a long weekend project.
Good luck
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russtburb
Newbie
Posts: 7
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posted April 18, 2009 03:59 PM |
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I am north of Bellingham, Washington near the Canadian Border in a small town called Blaine. It would be great to find out if anyone else lives around here. I think I saw some dudes were from Oregon. Thats a bit of drive, but I'd drive it if it was for the REPU!!!
gborch: Thanks for all the great detailed information. I will "copy/paste" it into a file and refer to it often in the next coming weeks. I do have some questions though. 1st gen and 2nd gen? Is that like a certain year to a certain year? is "series 1,2,3,4,and 5 the same as Generations? is T2 the name of the trans? I am sorry, I am a Chevy guy and am really not familiar with the Mazdas yet.
Ok, Here is the deal. The engine IN the Repu was a running driving unit but the guy couldn't get it to start with out pull starting it and it didn't run that well even after. I did have it running for about an hour, but when the cops came with their hands on their guns,(It was Back firing and I was tellin my kids to get in the house and get there little butts in bed! and someone thought it was "Domestic violence, shots fired"!) I shut her down and have not been able to get it going since. It has sat with no spark plugs and no air filter cover and no fuel tank cap for about 2 years? (the starter went out while I was making adjustments and I realized that the fuel pump and tank and lines were completely rusted and full of junk. I believe that it might could run again if I had a starter, cleaned out the carb, changed the oil and spark plugs, flushed the tank, new fuel lines and new fuel pump. BUT its still a carbed engine and I think the FI would be killer. New parts alone to get the old one running was going to be $300-400. SO when the RX-7 deal came along, AND it had a 5spd I thought done deal easy squeezy! So I think I have the parts I need Oil pan, front cover, motor mounts, and Maybe a 1st Gen trans shifter? What’s the deal with the thrust bearing? Just watch it and put in same as before or you need special tools to put it together? I have a shop manual but my teenage son thought it was good reading and took it to college with him!! He is trying to get it back. Sorry for the long post, Thanks again!
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74 Repu in re-power mode
72 3/4 Ton Suburban
84 chev K5 pu
89 Honda Civic
96 Geo Metro
2008 26QS Aerolite
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sparky
Redlining
Posts: 299
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posted April 18, 2009 05:47 PM |
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Hi Rustiburb,
Nice to have another Washintonian in the forum. I used to live in Snoqualmie valley and Kent. There is a substantial rotary community up there. Atkins is a service shop in Puyallup. Been in buisiness for along time and have infinite knowledge on rotaries. As far as rotary education.... go to racing beat website and read all FAQ's. Go to Mazdatrix and look around their website. It will take time and patience. Try to be a expert on what you have and how to adapt it to your truck.
regarding your questions. Generations refers to RX-7's. 1st
gen=78-85. 2nd gen=86-92. 3rd gen=93-95. Sometimes 2nd and 3rd gen are referenced with the VIN number series. FC3S for 2nd and FD3S for 3rd gen. Regarding engine series...the 13b has evolved since its arrival in 74? i'm no expert. Things that vary between series.. rotor weights and required front and rear counter balance/flywheel weights, apex seal width, and more. As far as the T-2 transmissions. Alot of rotorheads believe this tranny to be the best to handle big power. T-2 trans comes from the 2nd gen turbo rx-7's. Turbo rx-7's came from 86-89 with series-4 engine and trans. The 2nd gen also had a 13b series-5 engine from 90-92. This engine had lighter rotors and higher compression= more power and higher revs. Also had series-5 trans. These trans are also available from jap inporters. Important to remember. know what series enginge you are putting in and have proper rear counterweight if running lightweight flywheel.
Alot of info.
Call me sometime and we can go over what you have.
Scott
760-585-6030
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gborch
1st Gear
Posts: 39
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posted April 18, 2009 07:28 PM |
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There are a couple small technical things you will run into but everything should work out fine.
You will find speedo might be off a tad due to new tranny but speedo cable fits prefect.
You might want to change o ring and seal on speedo gear (small $3 items) while trans is out.
You will find the threads on the slave cylinder are fine threads in lieu of your coarse thread fitting (just cut re flair it with proper thread size or run a whole new cable and run it in one piece and loose about 13" of travel
around brake booster.
You might want to entertain changing slave cylinder and master cylinder while you are at it depending on your budget. I only suggest these items for you because you are a mechanic and this stuff should come fairly easy for you and it is easy to do now than later and can eliminate alot of trouble shooting problems down the road. But like all projects it can be endless with time and money.
Oh and while you at it you should be thinking about the exhaust as I am sure the one you have is no good by the sounds of it and you will probably need to cut some of it out to do this modification. So to be honest, you will be forced to do something with your exhaust as well. Cha ching . . like I said .. its just money.
The nice thing about keeping it F.I. is you can get diagnostics from the dealership.
Good luck
Hope it all works out.
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spokanerxdude
Hauling
Less cubes... More balls
Posts: 181
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posted April 19, 2009 09:01 AM |
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DVAST8R100 Live just across the border in Vancover BC and he has lots of parts.
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Allen Ervin, spokanerxdude@yahoo.com
509-998-9024
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russtburb
Newbie
Posts: 7
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posted April 27, 2009 07:11 PM |
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So I'm having trouble with motivation! I started to pull the old 13b and trans out of the REPU, I've got the electrical all unhooked, went underneath and got FREAKED out by the Wacky Exhaust! One piece 2 Pipe, one pipe is a tiny little thing that doesn't go into the muffler? all the bolts are rusted (RUST? here in Washington? Thats why I moved here from Michigan!) No room to get any tools under it with my weency little jack stands, wish I was at work with the truck on a hoist! Do I be gentle and remove the exhaust incase I want to reuse it? or just WACK it off? Are stock repu exhaust worth anything to anybody? How about a rear step bumper with brakets? I did manage to get the 2 piece driveline out in one piece, but that is where it sits. I've made a deal with the wife, Wednesday is CAR day. Its worked out well except for the lack of motivation.
I've been re-reading the other post trying to decipher what I need to do. Looks like switching the oil pan and front cover is easy enough. But it all comes back to the Transmission. Do I use the 4spd and just get it in and going? If I do that I'll need a new starter ($35 for a reman, Not a lot of money!) But I'd love to have that extra gear! So do I try craigs list and see if I can find the easy swap? maybe I can trade some parts of the RX-7? SO there is where I am.... Nothing to exciting. I plan on calling you Scott, just not sure when, One day!
Thanks for listening!
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74 Repu in re-power mode
72 3/4 Ton Suburban
84 chev K5 pu
89 Honda Civic
96 Geo Metro
2008 26QS Aerolite
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Klaus45
Redlining
On two wheels
Posts: 218
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posted April 28, 2009 09:26 AM |
Edited By: Klaus45 on 28 Apr 2009 09:31
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IF...
...any of your stock exhaust components are in salvageable/usable condition... someone may want/need them. (There might still be a few unmodified REPU's out there in places that need to pass emissions... etc.) Certain stock bits are very hard to come by -- like an intact, usable stock REPU muffler... or the "rug sucker" exhaust tip...
Don't be too freaked out by it, it's mostly a bunch of tubing and heat shielding. You'll want to retain some of the latter...
Yes, there is some demand for a rear bumper:
http://www.mazdarepu.com/board/viewthread.php3?FID=6&TID=2407
If it was me, I'd be looking for either a 'proper' (REPU/rx-4/Cosmo) 5-speed in working order, (harder to find), or an early 1st-gen rx-7 5-speed, (still somewhat easier to find). That way you don't have to screw around with shifter location. If you stick with the four speed, you'll be stuck with the four speed; they may be bulletproof, and they may be as fast as the five speed in certain situations... but you're right about wanting the extra gear. Don't let the starter make your decision.
RE: Rust -- Yep, it never sleeps... Get some 'Kroil' penetrating lube, and let it do it's thing.
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russtburb
Newbie
Posts: 7
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posted May 20, 2009 01:30 AM |
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Ok, here is an update. I am in WAY over my head with this thing and I think I am going to bail on it. I have a 1972 Chevy Suburban that we use to tow our travel trailer that could really use the money and effort I'm going to have to put into this truck. My wife is very understanding but I get the hints that she would like "Her" truck fixed up a bit. I am, at heart, a chevy guy. Maybe one day I'll venture in to these repu/rotary things when money is a little easier to come by...lol!!! That being said, I'm posting BOTH vehicles, the 74 REPU and the 86 wrecked RX7 in the for sale section. I've offered it to Cameron but have not heard back in like 2 weeks. A guy at work wants the RX7 but I'll post em both here first. Thanks for all your help and advise, these trucks are really cool, I just can't fit my family in it or tow my 26' travel trailer with it.
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74 Repu in re-power mode
72 3/4 Ton Suburban
84 chev K5 pu
89 Honda Civic
96 Geo Metro
2008 26QS Aerolite
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blwfly
1st Gear
Posts: 33
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posted June 09, 2009 05:18 PM |
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read my thread it might give you some hope,
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?p=9277627#post9277627
you need to be a member of rx7club.com and nopistons.com and research all your questions i actually shortend my shifter on my 87 turbo 5speed 7 1/4" and its in repu stock location :)
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74 repu getting a s4 t2
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